Swing vs. Poly

Swingology A Lifestyle Podcast is for adult entertainment only and we are not licensed professionals. Our show features adults themes, language and descriptions of sexual acts & desires. If you are under 18, this is not the show for you. 

The ideas & opinions expressed are those of the speaker only and not of any company or entity and should not be considered professional advice. Now let’s stimulate your mind…

 Swing vs. Poly 

Tori Kist and her husband Steve Kist share real life experience's about their swinger journey. Listeners will learn the many different types of open relationship styles.  

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[laughs][music] You are listening to Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. Swingology is for adult entertainment only, and we're not licensed professionals. Our show features adult themes, language, and descriptions of sexual acts and desires. If you're under 18, this is not the show for you. The ideas and opinions expressed are those of the speaker only and not of any company or entity, and should not be considered professional advice. Now, let's stimulate your mind. Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. We are your host, Tori Kist. And Steve Kist. And today we're going to be talking about types of open relationships, because there's more than one type of open relationship. There's polyamory, and there's different types of polyamory. There's swinger, and there's different types of swinger. So to begin with, let's lay our foundation. What is polyamory and what is being a swinger? Steve? Well, polyamory is a form of non-monogamy, where individuals or people have multiple consensual loving relationships simultaneously, or altogether, or even in little chains. Swinging is also a form of non-monogamy, which involves couples or people consensually engaging in sexual activities with others without the romantic, relational component. To begin with, let's talk about the types of open relationships involved around swinging. The young people in the lifestyle call it the lifestyle. And basically, these are people who have recreational sex with other people. They don't necessarily pursue romantic relationships with them. And then there's monogamy, which is like monogamy, only it ends with ISH, monogamy. A monogamy's couple is usually a monogamous, as far as anyone else knows. But they make allowances for the occasional extra-curricular, you know, rendezvous. A partner might see a dominatrix occasionally, or they might have a rumping night at a gay bar and a business trip. But these affairs are generally short-lived, have minimal impact on the couple, and both sides know about what's going on. They also might engage together at like Christmas time or their anniversary just to keep things spicier on those times. For whatever reason, there seems to have been a shift where people used to identify as swingers, and they still do. But the term lifestyle seems to have engrossed or encompassed swinging and all other forms of non-ethical non-monogamy. So if you practice ethical non-monogamy in any way, shape or form, you are now accepted and part of what's called the lifestyle. Steve, actually, let me stop for a moment there. The term ethical non-monogamy is actually controversial for some people. They don't like the term ethical being involved. They just wanted to be called non-monogamy. So what do you guys think? Why do you think that is? Why do you think they? I literally follow someone on Instagram, and she is polyamorous, and she's a swinger polyamorous. And she has a large following. And she recently had a video released about removing ethical from the ethical non-monogamy, and she had thousands of supporters in that. Interesting, not one would lie. Because non-monogamy should not be ethical or unethical. It should just be non-monogamy. And if you're cheating, that's the unethical. And so I totally get that, and I actually agree with that. So if I'm talking to a newbie couple that's not aware, I'll use the term ethical non-monogamy. But if I'm talking to someone who's been in the lifestyle for a while, non-monogamy, because they understand we're doing it the right way, we're not going behind back and lying and cheating and being sneaky. I think if you're part of the lifestyle, you would look at non-monogamy as always ethical, because you have accepted the boundaries and respect, and you understand that there is a certain etiquette that you have to follow and observe. Whereas people who are not a part of the lifestyle think that if you're practicing in non-monogamy, it's a form of cheating. So I think what we have done, those in the lifestyle, is we've added the term ethical in front of it to avoid stigma from those not in the lifestyle. Exactly. Yep. I think that's exactly what happened. And so let's not acknowledge that. There is no stigma. We are proud of who we are. It is non-monogamy. Whoa. There's a stigma. I can be passionate sometimes. I think there's a stigma. For sure. Like if I were to come out at work and say that I practice ethical non-monogamy as opposed to non-monogamy. The term to a non-lifestyle person conjures up different images in their mind. And I don't always have the time to explain to a group of people what it is that I'm involved in. But if I can at least plant a seed with these other people that what I'm doing is ethical in my mind, that's almost enough for me. Mm-hmm. I agree with you. So there is a stigma out there a little bit. There is. I just don't want to acknowledge it because I'm proud of who I am. Okay. Let's hear what the listeners think. If you're in an open relationship or open to open relationships, do you think that we should be calling it ethical non-monogamy or do you think it should be called non-monogamy? Let us know. I will put another poll up on Instagram. Go look for that under Swinality Podcast. Okay. Okay. Steve, what's another way that being a Swinger? So there is one called Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And this is the agreement between two partners where one is aware that their partner will be seeking out occasional relationships and that kind of thing, but they don't want to know about it. They don't want the details. They want to be completely left out. Basically, it's permission to go out and play with other people sexually, but they don't want to know anything about it. Yeah. And so there's two reasons or two examples of how you would have this agreement. Maybe one person is former interested in opening up the relationship and the other partner isn't, but the partner is wanting to make the other partner satisfied. So they're just giving me a way from it. So go do what you need to do and I don't want to know. That's one example. The other example is maybe their partner has become less interested in sex overall and doesn't want to hear about the details. So very similar to the previous example, they don't want to hear about it. I haven't run across too many people in the lifestyle that fall under that category. In fact, even now, I can't really think of any people that we actively know right now that fall in that category. Do you? Can you think of anyone that we know that is in that boat? No, however, we are not on the lookout for it. So we're not going to probably even recognize it if we saw it. No, that's true. And you know what? Let's say you're that person that's got that relationship that don't ask, don't tell relationship and you're out at the country club. Are you going to tell people that I am with someone, but they don't want to know about it? Because that's just going to throw up red flags. You're just going to go around and tell people that you're single, right? Or is that the wrong thing to do? I don't know. For me, I would even know it would throw up red flags. I think I still would tell people that I'm in a relationship. Unless you told me that since it hurt my chances, I should just go around and tell people that I'm single. But then the people that know me that are there, they would know that I'm not single. So yeah, I don't know. As long as both people in that relationship are being respected, I think it's a legitimate way to do it. Okay. So here we come to a term, guys. Just about everybody has a different definition to this particular term. Oh, this term. I do not like this term. And the term is called softswap. And the reason for that is softswap has so many different definitions to different people. And it's gotten to the point now where if anyone says, oh, worse, a softswap couple, we say, okay, what does softswap mean to you? That is the very next question because for some people, it means here is the most foundational definition I could find of softswap. It generally refers to sex with some kind of predetermined boundary. The most common agreement is something like hand jobs are okay or oral is okay, but penetrative sex isn't. However, rules are unique to everybody. So on the other hand of the spectrum, the other end is full swap, which generally means that a couple is into experiencing the full array of sexual experiences with whoever. But when I was introduced to the term softswap, I was told that it's just the females playing and the guys are watching. But then as I entered the lifestyle, got my experiences and started meeting people and they mentioned softswap to them, that meant the guy can play with the girl, as long as there's no sex involved. So it's different. I guess it also depends on your region and where you live. Yeah, that's true too, because there is a difference between bull and dragon. But if you're up north, dragon has the definition of bull. That's not accurate. I know we're going to be doing an episode on terms later, but I just, this kind of like relates. The term bull is a single male that plays with the female half of a couple. The term dragon means that the male will play with both the female and the male and the other couple. So there is a significant difference between bull and dragon. But for whatever reason, some people, I think it caught on somewhere and someone wasn't educated enough and it kind of spread and people somewhere else now associate the word dragon with bull, but that's not what that means. Stay tuned in a couple months. We're going to be releasing an episode about terminology. A final example of having a swinging relationship is BDSM, non-monogamy. Now this is not an exhaustive list, so there's going to be other versions of having a swinging open relationship. But let's talk about BDSM, non-monogamy. Say you have a couple and the guy is totally into BDSM. He loves going into his dumb space and it just lights him up and he just finds enjoyment there. But he is in love with a soulmate and she's just not into that. That's not her cup of tea. They are soulmates. They love each other dearly, but she's not into that. So a great example for them to have an open relationship would be the BDSM, non-monogamy, which is where he would be allowed to have a BDSM girlfriend or playmate that he could only experience the BDSM kink with. So on paper the definition is some non-monogamy relationships allow for an extra BDSM relationship, either with or without a sexual component. It's usually but not always because the other partner just doesn't share the same kinks. Yeah, and then so for those of you who don't know what BDSM is, it's essentially a wide spectrum of kinks. So it could be you have a sensory kink, which means that that's what I like. That's what you like, yes. So you get your eyes blindfolded, your ears with ear mubs, sensory deprivation. Sensory deprivation and then maybe your partner or multiple people then begin to touch you with different things, objects and hands that gives you a sensory experience and you don't know what the objects are. It could be feathers. It could be vibrator ones. Yeah, it could be, I remember that. It could be vibrator. It could be odd objects like Lego pieces. A friend of mine has these BDSM gloves. They're leather gloves with spikes on them and so she just kind of scratches the back ever so gently and it just brings me the tingles. I love it. Yeah, so that's that's some sensory play. There could be flogging involved and there's like an unlimited number of types of flogging. So it could be long straps, thick straps, heavy straps, straps with metal pieces on the end of them, thin straps. It could be like something as thin as hair and then all of those different floggers will give you a different sensory experience as they're hitting or as someone is hitting you with it and it could be that you only like it on the butt or it could be that you like it in the thigh or it could be that you like it across the back. Yeah, we're definitely going to be diving into a BDSM episode probably around Halloween or something. Yeah, guys, I have a whole schedule planned out for the year. We'll definitely probably have a guest speaker that is fluent in that kind of activity. I would love to get a guest speaker for that episode. Yeah. That can tell us about subspace and that can tell us about Dom Space and everything that we don't even go yet. How to play and all that kind of stuff. Our BDSM experience is limited but it's there. So I do like to be aggressive in the bedroom. It's sometimes called a pleasure Dom. I like to force pleasure on another person to the point where they have to tell me that it can't take any more. I like doing that. So I'll pin your body in different positions. I'll squish your face into the bed and make it take it. I will manipulate your body kind of like a theme park and just kind of use it the way I want to give you the maximum amount of pleasure I can give you at that time. It's so fun. If that's part of the BDSM world, that's where my happy place is. Now I've been with partners who said, you know, spit on me or like they said, they have a life motto which I happen to agree with. The weather is better and so if they squirt all over my cock or whatever, I'm going to grab that juice and then be like, how you like that and then I'll just smear it across their face and grab their jaw and then throw them down on the other side of the bed and then just kind of like penetrate them that way. Exactly. Yeah, I love seeing your fireworks like that. That's so freaking fun. Finding those people that are that aggressive or like that is kind of a rare thing. Okay. Let's talk about a couple of ways that you could have an open relationship with a little bit more romantic flare added to it. Romantic taste. Now there's a ton of different types of polyamory. Polyfidelity is the first term I'm going to touch base with. Polyfidelity. Sometimes abbreviated to just polyfie. The members of the group function like a closed monogamous couple just with a different number. So maybe it's three people or four people or five people. They're not going outside of their relationship for romance or sex. They're staying within their close group. Polyfidelity groups may live together. They may raise kids together. I just, they're safer sex practices to reflect this closed agreement. This is often also called a polycule. Although that term isn't exclusive. No pun intended. To polyfidelity arrangements. Swingers find another couple. Like one couple will find another couple that they relate just they're so into them and there's such a great four way connection that they find that through them and through them exclusively, they're completely satisfied with the lifestyle experience. And so they'll enter into an exclusive like listen, you know, we would love to be exclusive with you and we would love to play with you without condoms and that kind of thing. So we can only do that if we trust that you're not going to play with other people. So if we all agree that we're only going to play with each other, we will all agree that we'll go ahead and play without condoms. So they're exclusive. So there's an exclusive relationship with just with the four of them. But that one's not romantic. That's just exclusivity with swinging. So the next one is kitchen table poly and I hear this one a lot. It gets its name from the idea that it's the kind of polyamory where everyone involved could sit around the kitchen table and there's not going to be any drama at all. This is the opposite of a don't ask, don't tell type of relationship. This is one where there's open honest communication to all people involved. Not all people necessarily are going to be involved sexually with each other, but they're all sitting at a table and everyone understands what's going on. Let me give you another example of this kitchen table poly. Say Steve and Tori and Adam, for example, we're in a kitchen table poly. I hope Adam has big breasts. Adam's the first name. Adam and Eve. Adam was the first name that came into my mind. So Tori and Steve and Adam are going to poly relationship. So Tori and Adam have sex. Tori and Steve have sex. Steve and Adam do not have sex. So in that type of relationship, Adam would be the metamorph to Steve. So metamorph is the partner's partner that you're not sexually involved with on the flip side. If Tori and Steve and Eve were in a relationship, Steve played with Tori, Steve played with Eve, Tori did not play with Eve, then Eve would be the metamorph of Tori. So metamorph is the partner that you're not sexually involved with. All right. So there's Quad, which is very self-explanatory. Quad is the exclusive for person connection, some kind of romantic and sexual connection there, but it's not necessarily in every configuration. So it's generally a free for all. But Quad is basically the type of polyamory swinging relationship we just kind of discussed a little bit. Maybe there's romantic feelings involved. Maybe there's not, but all four are kind of exclusive with each other. And there's a free for all between the four. And again, that doesn't necessarily mean that all four are sexual with all people in the Quad. It's just that everyone's aware and there's four people involved. What is more common is the term "thrupple" or triad. All people has become such a more common term lately. You see more "thrupples" out in the community, out in the environment. And it's where all partners are in a romantic and sexual relationship with each other. A triad actually has four relationships playing out. The one-on-one relationship between each person and the triad to each other. And then the relationship between all three partners. And so there is a different aspect to that. So let's say for example, we have a "thrupple" relationship with Eve and my wife is sick, but we had plans for all three of us to go out to dinner. Perhaps me and Eve go out to dinner alone or perhaps me and Eve stay at home and then spend the day taking care of our sick partner with chicken soup and massages or whatever else. So it could be that in the thrupple, there's always a date night between all three partners or it could be that there's a special date night with one person on Wednesday and then the other person on Friday for example. And then maybe between the other two, leaving the third person out on the next date night. So it's all what you're comfortable with in that type of relationship. I would always imagine it being a very natural something that isn't forced. If you feel like you're forcing something like one person wants to try it, but the other person really isn't feeling it, then you should maybe discuss not necessarily being a thrupple, but maybe a type of poly relationship like a chain. That's called a closed-v love. A closed-v is a handy way of describing the dynamics between a polyamorous relationship with three people. However, two of them are not having a relationship with each other. So it's like a V like each dot of the letter V would be connected, but the very top two are not connected. Perfect. I love the segue there. Great job. Absolutely. There's the solo polyamory, which is basically a polyamorous person that does not need to have a partner, but they're open to dating around, sleeping around, and they're just open. Many describe themselves as their primary relationship is with themself. And that kind of, I was kind of like that when I was single. I went on a couple dates. I didn't really sleep around much. I didn't really sleep around much. But my relationship was with myself until I met my soulmate. I totally understand this. I didn't even realize it was considered a type of poly, but it is solo polyamory. And the final type that we're going to talk about on today's episode. But it's not the exhaustive list of polyamory. It could go on and on and on. In fact, if this were going to be a class on types of polyamory, this would be like the kindergarten or beginner class, because when I say this stuff gets really technical and really deep involved, it like off the chain, like complicated. Yeah. I mentioned the closed V like there's letters of the different dots. Like if you go to Google images and you type in types of polyamory and images pop up, giving you like all these different like the W there's the D like all these different ways you can have a relationship polyamorous like anyway. Let me go back to okay, here's the final way that we're going to talk about today's episode. And it's kind of almost like a taboo term in the polyamory world. It's hierarchy polyamory. Either they're married or they're in a long term relationship, they're established, they're solid. And they decide to embark on the journey of polyamory together and they find another person and they call their person the third, which isn't exactly a good word to use. Yeah, a third, using the word third to people in the polyamory community we've already learned is kind of like us, it's like a little diss. It's like a sting. It's like a little sting like, oh, I'm just your third wheel. I'm just there as a side piece. I'm just there like no, they want an equal partnership. And if you're an equal partnership with somebody, you're not a third. You are equal. So the third would be the addition to the primary, which again is not a great word to use in lifestyle. The primary would be the two people that were established before the third came along. Generally, many people won't really identify as a hierarchical poly. It's usually a term that enters the conversation when something has gone wrong. Maybe you have a polyamory relationship and it's a threple and the three of you are in love. You're getting along great and life is peachy. And then something happens where you start to feel distant and then arguments happen and you're trying to talk things through but nothing actually clears up. And then someone uses the term primary. Well, that's a major dis because I thought we were all on equal playing fields, right? Right. And so seeing the word primary after you've entered into a threple relationship is basically like throwing a bomb onto the situation. So we have met a couple of couples that have claimed they had a unicorn but they had to let her go because she was getting too attached. That's a heart situation as well. So maybe you have your swingers and you found a single woman and she plays with you a lot and then she starts to get attached. She's looking for more of like a threple situation. And so it's just important to have those conversations up front, let her know, establishes boundaries up front. Listen, we're here to hang out with you. We can play together. We can even maybe go on trips together but we're not going to be romantic. It's opening those emotional doors and we're not going to do that. So make sure you establish that boundary in the beginning so you're not having to, you know, have heart breaks later on. And so some people out there are trying to imagine, well, I don't even know how I would have sex with a couple or intimate experiences with a couple more than once and not have some kind of feelings get involved at some point. And for swinger couples that are looking for unicorns, again, not necessarily the most best term to be utilizing but single female. Single females that are interested in playing with couples that generally don't play together all that often. Let's be honest. And when I say all that often, I'm referring to like once a month or maybe once every other month. And if you're only seeing someone once every other month, the chances of you developing romantic feelings for them are pretty slim. So if you're seeing them every week and however or twice a week and you're having intimate experiences, I mean, you guys should have a conversation. Very upfront and open about boundaries and probably often too. And often and be like, Hey, how are you feeling? We've been together for six months and we've, you know, it's gotten to the point now where if I see you with my partner alone at the house and expectively, I don't think nothing of it. How are you feeling? Are you feeling that you're still romantically or are I'm sorry? Are you still detached romantically? Are you feeling like there's feelings getting involved? We just kind of want to have a conversation with you about that and then all have that conversation together. Try to hide things from someone, you know? I just thought of an idea for people in that situation. Maybe it, maybe it might be a good idea to have almost like a safe word in, say for it is something that you'd use in the BDSM world, but maybe you could have a particular word that you would use when you're starting to get those feelings, but it's not quite there yet. It's almost like a warning word, like a yellow, like I really like hanging out with you guys. I feel great or best friends, I know we love each other on that friendship level, but I feel like things are getting closer. And just like, I don't know, it's just an idea to throw out there. So if you're starting to come across that border, you and like let's say that couples inviting you to unicorn for dinner on Friday night and you say the word well, I'm feeling a little bit rainbow right now. Rainbow might be your word. Rainbow might be your word. I feel a little rainbow right now. I might need to spend a couple weeks hanging out with some other people or some other couples for a little while because I don't want to encourage on our boundary that we've already established. That's fantastic. And then if that couple is feeling rainbow with you too, then you can have that conversation. Hey, I'm glad you said that because I'm feeling the same way. Maybe it's time to take things a little deeper. Right. And there's a lot of couples that like the idea of including a third, but they don't know how it would happen. And so they were like, they start out like, let's, if it's going to happen, it'll happen organically, right? And I think maybe we even fall into this category, but they say, all right, we're going to start this out and we're going to have this boundary in place. But if it all goes, well, maybe we'll remove the boundary later if we all feel like we want to, right? We gave you guys some great examples of how to have an open relationship. We taught you some new terms. I hope. And if I didn't teach you a new term, maybe you can teach Stephen, I, a new term. Let us know under the comments over on our Instagram page or on our Facebook page. We want to build a community where we can support each other and learn from each other. Absolutely. You know, we're not perfect. If we've gotten any part of our educational foundation wrong or incorrect, feel free to reach out and talk to us about it. Maybe our understanding is a little off. Maybe we can show you the resources that we utilize to get our understanding and maybe you're, maybe you're off a little bit. And remember, terms have different definitions depending on where you live. Remember, potato potato is the same thing, but it's said different ways. Yes, absolutely. So thank you so much to our listeners out there. We're getting great feedback from the community already. Thank you so much for your support. Absolutely. If you want to keep hearing us, there is a donation button. We would love to receive some love. Love that way. We're not opposed. That's on the show notes. And then just thank you so much for taking the time of your day to listening. I hope that we are educating you and your feeling fulfilled. Thank you for tuning in and stimulating your mind. Stimulate your mind. Thank you so much for listening to Swingology. I'm truly honored to have you as a listener. If you liked what you've heard, consider subscribing to our podcast or connecting with us on social media. The links can be found with the episode show notes. This is Tori Kest reminding you to stimulate your mind.[Music][BLANK_AUDIO]