Swinger Shame

Swingology A Lifestyle Podcast is for adult entertainment only and we are not licensed professionals. Our show features adults themes, language and descriptions of sexual acts & desires. If you are under 18, this is not the show for you. 

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Swinger Shame

Tori Kist and her husband Steve Kist share their real life experience's while in their swinger journey.   

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Transcript

0:00

[laughs][music] You are listening to Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. Swingology is for adult entertainment only, and we're not licensed professionals. Our show features adult themes, language, and descriptions of sexual acts and desires. If you're under 18, this is not the show for you. The ideas and opinions expressed are those of the speaker only and not of any company or entity, and should not be considered professional advice. Now, let's stimulate your mind. Welcome back to another episode of Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. We are your host, Tori Kest. And Steve Kest. And today we're going to be talking about Swinger Shame. That's not kinkshaming, because there is no kinkshaming around here. Swinger Shame is when you feel shame because of something regarding the lifestyle. So let's dive in about what we have felt, what we have seen, and how we have overcome Swinger Shame. I'll go first. When I first joined the lifestyle, approximately five years ago, I felt shameful being in it. I had to keep it a secret from my family. I was raised as a child, very conservative. And as a young adult and middle aged adult, I kept that conservative lifestyle. And then I met my sweet husband, and entered the lifestyle, and everything was wild, and exciting, and exotic, and fun, and naughty. And I had to keep that part of me hidden from my family. And I felt as though I would be shunned if they found out of the sexual things I was doing on the weekend. Until one day, about two years, and I felt so confident about who I was in the lifestyle, I told them I said, "Listen, I'm going to tell you something, and you guys probably won't like what I'm going to tell you, but I love you, and I want you to know who I am. I'm a Swinger." And that doesn't mean I have sex with everybody. That means I have freedom and have the ability to share my husband, and he shares me, and it's exciting. My family completely understood that I was coming from a confident place. They didn't like that I was a Swinger. No, no, no, no, no. But they also said, "Thank you for telling me, and I hope that you stay safe." That's what my mother said. And that was amazing. I was kind of expecting her to shame me. I was expecting her to preach at me, Bible verses, or something, and that's not what I got from my mother. So that was my experience, Steve. What was your experience when you told your family you were a Swinger? Well, due to the unique way of my entrance into the lifestyle, they saw those tendencies in me in high school. So it was me entering adulthood was just a continuation of my experience in high school. And there was no like, "I have entered the Swinger world. It was just, I was already in it. I just didn't have a name for it at the time." And they just saw that behavior and then saw it continue in adulthood. And so there wasn't any shock to them. Just Steve began Steve. But didn't your family initially shun you? And then eventually they came around to talk into you. Wasn't there like a small period of time where they didn't want to talk to you and they were like, "You're not part of our family anymore?" That actually did not happen when I entered the lifestyle. What you're remembering is when I entered Only Fans. Oh. So I was in the lifestyle for a few years and I noticed that people like to just hang by my bed when I was having sex. So I thought, "You know, I have friends that are on Only Fans. They're getting paid for this. So let me just put a camera on and see if I can make some money too because people are watching me." That got out to my family pretty much early. I was going to tell them, but somehow they found out early and that's when they decided, well, my sister primarily decided to shun me somewhat. She eventually got over it and I eventually got over Only Fans as well because spoiler alert, cancer of the lifestyle. I guess we didn't try too hard, but we weren't at the end of the day. We weren't too successful with it. The UI freaking tried. I'm a full-time working mom and I was doing that as well, editing my own stuff, which I love doing. I certainly tried. It just wasn't for me and I'm quite glad it was for me because you will understand at the end of this episode why I was glad it wasn't for me. But let me move on to my next subject of feeling shame. So yeah, there I was in the beginning of being in the lifestyle, trying to keep this fun, sexy, exotic life, separate from my home life. But then when I would go to these lifestyle parties, these swing-up parties, I'd wear this lingerie or I'd be walking around half naked and I felt embarrassed a little by my body. I'm pale, I had, I've had three babies so my skin wasn't tight. I mean, I did the best I absolutely could, but I'm not Barbie or Victoria Secret by any means. And that's kind of like the image that at least American women were pushed into this ideal body image. In fact, that's literally a spa name. So I felt like I wasn't enough or I wasn't good enough and I had to get over that and eventually I did get over that. But I'm sure men feel the same way. It's just me, it's not pushed as heavily. Ever once in a while I can look into me and see like, ooh, I should work on that. But also there's a part of me that's a little bit more forgiving to myself. Sometimes I might look at someone with a full head of hair and maybe like, hmm, wonder what a full head of hair would look like. And then sometimes I really don't care. I still suffer from body shame every now and then because I have a sedatory job and so people who have sedatory lifestyles and jobs typically have more, what is it called? There's little dumplings on the on the butt and the thighs. Cellulitis? Cellulitis. That is not necessarily hereditary, but it's definitely from sedatory lifestyle. And so I'm sitting at a desk all the time and I know I have dimples. So sometimes I make fun of my dimples and I have to do that. I have to be a lighthearted about it. Otherwise I feel like not enough again and can't go back to that dark little corner. That's not a place for me anymore. So Steve, what's an example of when you felt shame in the lifestyle? One of the more recent ones that come to mind was, and I might have told the story before, is when we were in talks with a younger 20-something couple and they're both young and attractive and full of energy. And for whatever reason, I wasn't able to perform in that moment. It was shocking because it was one of the first moments where I wasn't able to perform the way I wanted to. Nothing seemed to be working and it made no sense. It was a complete embarrassment. That was definitely the first time that I experienced that shame of not being able to provide and give pleasure the way I typically had and typically always do. Another moment was way earlier in my lifestyle experience before I met you. I was going to a lifestyle event and I was trying to meet with couples and singles. And I felt that my experience was lacking. I didn't have enough of it. And when I say experience, of course I've had dozens of three sums at the time and I had several experiences with couples. But I didn't have the training, the etiquette. I barely even had some of the language that typical lifestyleers use to understand each other. So it was just like, how much experience have you had? Oh, I've had experience. How long have you been in the lifestyle? I guess. I'm kind of new, but I hadn't been. But when someone asked me if I had been in the lifestyle, I would say I'm kind of new in it only because I hadn't really realized at that point that I had already been a part of the lifestyle for a while. And I was just lacking key terms and things of that nature. I understood some concepts of etiquette, but I think a large majority of etiquette that someone should know being in the lifestyle, I was definitely lacking. So I had shame of admitting my inexperience to things that I should have had experience on. Right. It's like, how do I not know this? I can't admit to this. Right. It's like, I don't know what I don't know. And I know I'm missing key concepts and I can't admit that right now because I'm in a roomful of experienced lifestyle. And you're a single guy and you want to impress people. Exactly. Yeah. I can only imagine the stress that you were faced. Okay. So another piece of shame that I have dealt with is something that I have actually been battling for the last, I guess, two and a half years off and on. I know that the lifestyle is such a welcoming community. And that's one of the beautiful things is, wow, we're so not judgmental. Right. So you'd think that there wouldn't be much shame. But deep down inside, we are our own worst enemies. Well, talking to some couples, they'll say everyone says the lifestyle has the most welcoming people, but at the same time, when you meet a couple that isn't so welcoming, it hurts a little bit more and they're jaded a little bit harder than they would be from someone else because they expect everyone to be so welcoming. And so when they're not, they're like, the lifestyle is just full of the same kind of people doesn't matter who they are. That's true. Yeah. So the latest shame that I've been dealing with is part of my sexuality. You know how there's the LGBTQ, LGBTQI plus, all the letters of pride? Well, I'm the last letter. I'm the A. I'm the A sexual. And there's different types of A sexual and I am a A's flux, which means I fluctuate all up and down that A sexual spectrum. Sometimes I'm completely repulsed by sex and think it's gross. And other times I am a cubio sexual, which means I just want to have sex and I just don't feel sexual attraction towards anyone and I don't. That's the common denominator there is there is no sexual attraction. It's just sometimes I want to have fun and sometimes I don't want to have fun. And lately it's been the, I kind of don't want to do any of that stuff. Kind of vibes that I've been faced with and I can't control it. It's not like, okay, we'll just get up, dust yourself off and go do it. No, you can't. Like, if you have a fever, can you control your temperature? No, you can't control your temperature. That's kind of the same thing that I'm dealing with. So I feel shame when I'm at these lifestyle parties when people want to do things and I'm not at that level. My husband, for example, he wants to go to a full swap or wants to go to an orgy and I can't get myself to go for whatever reason. That's what I feel shame for and I need to find my people to be honest because there are some, there has to be other people that are asexual. They don't necessarily want the sexual energy, but they want to be in a lifestyle party. I would love to find my little circle, maybe platonic friends, maybe sometimes we get naughty but most of the time we're just platonic. I love that word right now. Platonic is totally my vibe. So that's what I'm dealing with. Steve, what are you dealing with these days? I'm kind of dealing with over-sexuality. I like the 8 PM to 5 AM play sessions. I like the little breaks that go on in between and all the fun and the giggles and the laughing and just the non-stop sex and I like that. But I don't like it every single day. I like to do it like every weekend. Like every weekend a solid 8 to 5 would be amazing. And then have regular sex sporadically spread throughout the week. But that kind of activity is not just inconvenient for you. It's almost a chore and it makes me feel bad. It makes me feel terrible. And then when I approach other people in the lifestyle, I'll meet a couple or a single female and we'll maybe initiate play and then they want, the moment they orgasm, they're kind of done. Maybe it's only been 15 minutes. And I'm like, wait, that was just, we haven't even stretched out yet. You're done. It's like, okay. Of course I don't make them feel bad. It just makes me feel like, okay, I'm just too much. It makes me feel bad because I'm too much and I need to calm or simmer down. You and I are on the seesaw of I feel like I'm not enough and you feel like you're too much. And that is, it's hilarious looking from the outside end, but it hurts, you know, being together because I only want the best for you and I want to be there and I want to be enough. And the same thing for you, you only want the best for me and you kind of want to cool your jets, but you can't because that's just who we are. Yeah. So what we kind of look for or have been looking for lately is a lifestyle couple where maybe the wife is a little bit more over sexual like me and the other husband is more. More platonic and maybe casual chill like you and that's kind of hard to find. Normally it's the other way around where the wife is more chill and the husband is more like me. So I think we found one. I think it's so far. It's been amazing. We found one singular couple and then this entire one of the couple. Yeah. A bit more. No, honestly, there's going to be more. There's got to be more. Yeah, that's true. But I mean, hope abounds don't give up looking for your people, whatever it is that you're into or you feel like you have shame about. If you keep searching long hard and I feel eventually fine though, so don't ever give up hope looking for your people. What about shame that we see other people experience? Okay. So I have a couple examples on that actually. Okay. Once we were at an LS event, we were at a club. We had kind of separated and we were intermingling with people. I had run into a female, started chatting up. We got along pretty great. She was like, okay, great. Let's see if we can get our partners together and make this a great four way connection. She has to see a picture of you. The moment I show in her your picture, she seemed to deflate. She's like, she's not going to be into my husband. She thought you were too pretty and too gorgeous for her husband. So she felt shame that her husband wasn't attractive enough, which of course before seeing him, I tried to like make her feel better. Like, why would you? Because it was just curious why her initial reaction was that. Right. I was like, well, that's an interesting reaction. I wanted it to be false, but she wasn't wrong. And I wish it had a better ending to that story. But here's the thing. I don't really have a type. My type is a vibe. It's not a look. Literally. I have turned down guys that look like hen. Yeah. And I have played with other people that you were like, why are you talking to them? I don't have a type. I have a vibe. I don't remember that particular couple that you're referring to. Because she got so in her own head that it never got that. Oh, wow. I didn't even have the chance to vibe with them. I could have liked them. Well, I mean, I think we did, but it was like just so short and passing that it was amounted to nothing. Oh my gosh. Wow. Another thing that we come across on a routine basis, there's a lot of buy women in the lifestyle. And there are sometimes women who are straight who feel like they need to be spied because there's so much pressure to be by, but they're simply not. Yes, that was me in the beginning. That's not uncommon to run into in the, in we have found that the exact opposite happens where guys are by, but they can't say that they're by because they'll get shame or maybe a straight couple won't talk to them. I was like, I don't want no guy emotional with me. But at the same time, like that same person who's completely adamant that they're straight and they're yelling it from the rooftops. The moment they get behind closed doors, like don't tell anyone about do this, you're just like, what? So. Yeah, there's definitely a CSO there too. So women feeling as though they have to be by because most of the women are by in the lifestyle and then men feeling like they have to be straight and they can't be by because the shame, but come on guys, let's just be true to ourselves. I mean, you're not going to just be able to like tell people just to get over it. I know. That's right. We're all on this boat, but that's the thing. We're all in this boat together. Well, I mean, some people are in different boats, you know? I mean, some people have kinks that they're in too. For example, someone might say that they love golden showers. They might be talking to an attractive couple and then they feel a certain kind of way about it and then suddenly kind of ghost you or they walk off and it's like, you know, I can be into something and it doesn't have to involve you. And we, but we can still have fun and be friends. Why does me just admitting something that I like make you feel like you need to turn away? One of my favorite things is to make people feel included and validated because validation was missing in a lot of part of my life. So I like to give a lot of validation. And whenever someone tells me something that they're into, for example, the golden showers, what you just said, if I have not entered that, I'm not going to repel them. I'm going to say, wow, that's so interesting. Tell me about that. When did you fall in love with this kink? Tell me more about it. I need to know. That's literally how I feel into the lifestyle. I had to learn about it to find out if I liked it and I loved it. You loved golden showers? No, the lifestyle. Oh, okay. Just make sure. Remember you asked me on one of our first dates. If I... Anyway, I'm moving on. Are there any other shames that we can think of that people are faced with? Oh, I can't. Yep. I thought of one. Okay, go ahead. Okay. And I actually talked about this a couple episodes ago. We had a four-way connection with a couple and we were friends with them for probably three or four months, maybe going on five months or something we played off and on. And it got to the point where I no longer felt the connection. Like I liked them as people and maybe that's when my sexuality started to make the switch over to the... It really did. That's when it really... Yeah, that's when it happened. That was a straw. I think if there was a straw, that was when it kicked in. Oh my gosh. I think we're realizing something right now. But yeah, I stopped having a connection with the other dude. I felt ashamed by that. I felt like I don't want to be the person to break up or a happy harmony. But I can't keep doing this because I kept forcing myself... You guys may remember a couple episodes ago and I got to the point of like I was second the toilet. Like I can keep doing this. So I think you're right. I think that's when my asexuality just took the flip over to the other side. It was another example that people might feel shame. Or do you want to talk about how we get over shame? And how do we get over shame? I don't know. How do you get over shame? We were outlining you had a great dialogue about this. That was your takeaway. I had that? Yes, yours. I'm an amazing person in the past, apparently. But my current self is falling short. So you said when we were making the outline for this episode that you're going to feel shame until you find your people and until you find the confidence. Oh, well yeah. I mean... We'll tell the people that. But I kind of just did though. Like when you find your people, you don't have to feel the shame because you're amongst people who understand you. But that's not really overcoming it as so much as just finding people that are into the same things that you are into. And if that's the only way you can overcome your shame, then that's all you've got to work with. But in terms of like you looking in upon yourself and looking at your family going, I'm going to tell my family regardless of how they feel about me, that's overcoming shame. Like... Well, I built confidence. That's what I did for that. I built my confidence of who my identity was. Okay, so how do you do that? I kept having fun in the lifestyle and learning who I was and establishing my identity and becoming proud of. You got to the point where you're pride about your identity, overroad what you felt your family might think about you. Yes. Okay. And the judgment of my family didn't have as much weight versus the pride that I felt as my new identity. Does that make sense? Right. That's a really great way to overcome shame. That's a valid way to do that. I guess I'm awesome too. You are. So what can you do to alleviate other people from feeling their shame? Ask questions about it and tell them that you've experienced it before but you're curious to learn more. Obviously give validation, like I said earlier. What are some other things that you can think of to alleviate other people from feeling shame in the moment? Regardless of what they're into, like if someone approaches me and said, you know, they like to come on feet or whatever. The worst thing you can do is scoff or make a disparaging remark or do the ghost and flip and run away. Those are all things that you're just going to discourage them from being themselves the next time they interact with someone. So instead of being that person, what you can do is express some interest, but then at some point, like I can ask questions about someone's interest or someone's kink that doesn't mean that I'm going to participate in it. It just means that I hear them. I validate their interests and what I might do instead like, hey, you know what, I know someone. I have a friend that's totally into that. Let me connect you with them. Now you become a matchmaker and you've become friends to a group of friends. They all like you for it. And then now you've got like a circle of friends. You might not participate what they do on, you know, there's Sunday nights together. But right now you're invited to full swap parties on Friday. Or what have you, you know, you can become a matchmaker. Full swap maker. Is that a thing? Full swap? Hold on. There's a coin to term around here. Just give me a minute. The swap master. The swap master. Sounds like a dungeon type of term. No, I haven't landed on it yet. Give me some time. Can land over here. Oh, you know, actually you're the one supposed to be landing over here. I'll just land on some cushion to eat bags over there. Well, my love. Did you want to give our listeners any homework? I like our homework idea because it encourages dialogue between couples and we all need to have more open communication. I'm kind of discouraged by the whole homework thing to be honest with you because-- Disgraged. Yeah, a little bit. So we've done, I don't know, how many episodes, 17, 18 episodes? A dozen or more. Sure. We've done, I don't know, how many homework assignments? We've never had any feedback from homework assignments. We've never had anyone admit that they had done it or what they thought about it or anything. Whereas we've had some feedback about episodes and things that we've said, favorite episodes and that kind of stuff. What's just the answer? Sure. Never has anyone for a moment discussed homework. No one, okay, okay, our pupils, our students are not turning in their homework. Everybody needs to get on TikTok and report their homework and tag us. Oh my gosh. Actually, we're not on TikTok, we're on Instagram. Are we? Yes. And Facebook. Facebook and Instagram. That's where you can find us. And of course, YouTube. Of course, YouTube. Yeah, we don't. I have no idea what she's talking about. It's just, you know, YouTube, the music side of me, you can listen to the podcast over there. And if you want to watch the videos, just our logo. Anyway, due to the lack of interest in homework, I've been discouraged to come up with anymore. Okay, well, I'm going to override this discouragement and give some homework to these students. Please, my students of Swingology, let's establish some homework now. I would like to receive in my inbox a one page essay. What? What? On the shame that you've overcome by being in the list. Oh my god. They're just going to chat GPT it. You know, they're not, it's not even going to be really them. You know what? No, I'm playing. I'm probably going to cut that out. No, you're not. What do you do? All right. Well, guys, tune in next time to stimulate your mind. Wait, wait, stop! What? No. Okay, this has been your hosts from Swingology. We're going to sign out now. Be sure to tune in next time to stimulate your mind. Stimulate your mind. Yes. See? It's better when you go second. Thank you so much for listening to Swingology. I'm truly honored to have you as a listener. If you liked what you've heard, consider subscribing to our podcast or connecting with us on social media. The links can be found with the episode show notes. This is Tori Kist, reminding you to stimulate your mind.[MUSIC][BLANK_AUDIO]