Unicorns & Bulls

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Unicorns & Bulls

Tori Kist and her husband Steve Kist share their real life experience's while in their swinger journey.   

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Transcript

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[laughs][music] You are listening to Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. Swingology is for adult entertainment only, and we're not licensed professionals. Our show features adult themes, language, and descriptions of sexual acts and desires. If you're under 18, this is not the show for you. The ideas and opinions expressed are those of the speaker only and not of any company or entity, and should not be considered professional advice. Now, let's stimulate your mind. Welcome back to another episode of Swingology, a lifestyle podcast. We are your host, Tori Kist. And Steve Kist. And today we're going to be talking about bowls and unicorns. And what it's like to be with a couple, find a couple, and all the insidouts and naughty details of that. Steve. Yes. Talk to me, Goose.[laughs] Well, I can only speak to the perspective of being a bowl. Are you sure you can talk about being a unicorn? I mean, we can talk about our experiences with unicorns. We have plenty of those. I just realized, let's rewind and explain what is a unicorn and what is a bowl. Okay. So, a unicorn is the single female who is looking for or is interested or is willing to play with a couple or a stag or a vixen. It's just a single female that's in the lifestyle. And the bowl is kind of the same thing, right? It's just the opposing of the unicorn. It's a single male and lifestyle. I mean, there's not much else to it. Okay. So, basically, a unicorn is a single female and a bowl is a single male. Those are the nicknames or the cute little pet names that are given. Not every female likes being called a unicorn. They may feel objectified, so they just like to be called their name or a bowl. I don't know if the guy's really care. Someone does. I mean, when you, some people just don't like titles in general. So, the fact that you say, "I don't like to be called a unicorn," or "I don't like to be called a bowl," it's just a preference. And then there's some people out there that love their title. They want to shout it from the rooftops and let everyone know."I'm a unicorn. Everyone knows that I'm available for their couples enjoyment." So, for the purposes of today's episode, we're going to be using the term unicorn for single females and we don't mean to discriminate against-- To discriminate against-- Or insults at all. Right. Or to, you know, degrade single females. We're not trying to objectify. This is the common term. Also, let's make it even more complicated, my love. What about dragon? I've heard people call single males dragons. Well, there's quite a few single males in the lifestyle that like to play with just the females and they're often-- they're proud to call themselves bowl. But the term dragon is used in some areas of the country as a single male who's willing to play with both husband and wife. So, it's not a term that has caught on everywhere, but it is a term that is catching in some locations. All right. So, you have experience being a bowl. And I love this for you. You've learned a lot in your time being in the lifestyle, being a bowl. And I do not have any experience being a unicorn. However, we do have experience playing with a unicorn. Actually, I'm going to stop you there. You do have experience being a unicorn. I was a unicorn. Yes. You did. But that even knowing it. Okay. Who was the lucky couple? You may or may not remember. We were at a house party once and I was off playing with a very beautiful wife and you were outside as you told the story. I remember. A fire pit. Yes. Okay. Oh my gosh. You were totally a unicorn in that moment. I loved that experience too. Oh, so you loved it. Okay. So talk about it. Talk about this moment. Okay. Okay. So, Steve, when I got to this house party, a big beautiful house, we walked around, introduced yourself to everyone, get drinks and we're just vibing. And he vibes with this sexy, hot wife. They go upstairs and they start having sex. And I'm down. She had 10 years on me. She wanted zero to know me and I was all about that thirsty energy. He was like, okay, girl, let's go. Yes. In fact, I got you the last bottle of water and the cooler. I was like, you guys are still going to hear how this water. But I wasn't really vibing with anyone, which is totally fine. So I went out to the fire pit and was just, you know, talking to everyone out there. Pretty late in the party time, this younger couple arrived and they went out and they were kind of new to the lifestyle. And I started talking to them after about 35 minutes of being outside. I was like, hey, you can tell me no. That's totally fine. But would you guys like to go inside to one of the rooms? We can close the door and just see what happens. We don't have to do anything or we could just talk in there. And they're like, yeah, that sounds good. And let's go in there. So we went in the room and one thing led to another and we got to playing and it was great. Okay. So seeing, there you go. And it can be just as simple as that. It's not that you went out there and advertised yourself as unicorn. It's just that's how the situation evolved for you. Right. My first real experiences outside of little parties and things of that nature was when I spent some time in Georgia. I was on a specific search to find a long term couple that I could be a routine partner with. I think you were late 20s, early 30s. Yep. Over the course of two or three years I'd found or had met with, I don't know, a half dozen, eight couples. I had a real relationship longer than a play session or two with two of them. And one of them was more long term the other one and they were both different types of being a third for them. Like one was very just matter of fact, play only. It was almost transactional in nature. It was you're going to come over Friday and you're going to be gone by 10 30 and thank you for pleasure in my wife. Have a good day. We'll contact you when we want you to come over again. It was just strictly like that that went on for quite a while. Whereas the other relationship was much more of almost poly feeling. Okay. Now it wasn't poly. It was just there wasn't labels attached to anything. It was just he's over. The wife said that she loved me. I said that I loved them. Oh. Yeah. But like it wasn't like I was the boyfriend. It wasn't like I was their quote unquote third. Again, there just wasn't labels. It was just we all realized that we're humans. We all realized that we had feelings and we all realized that we could express them without jealousy. There was a certain kind of a freedom with that and it was great and I miss it. I miss that. You miss that energy. I miss that energy. So. Life pulled you away. You had to move away. Yeah. And lost connection. So there's certain ways to go about as a bowl or as a couple and you're looking for your third. And a lot of it, I think mostly involves of course some people would disagree. But for me, it always involved initiating searches online. So it'd be like I would just kind of put myself out there and let people know that I am looking or I'm available and then seen if there's any kind of positive feedback response. And then have some kind of meet somewhere, get the vibes, see if we're normal people and that we're into each other and then continue on from there. One of the things that as a guy as a bowl, my piece of advice is try to always speak to the husband first as just as a basic common etiquette courtesy. Don't wait. Don't wait for the husband to stand up and walk away to talk to the wife. Just approach the couple, talk to the husband first because if you're going to be in some kind of third relationship with them anyway, whether it's a one time deal or whether it's ongoing, you're going to end up talking to the husband anyway. So why, why are you not going to give him the courtesy or why are you going to show cowardice by waiting until the husband leaves the talk to the wife? Because a third has been lots of conversations with couples over the years, that's one of their main complaints that when they talk about looking for a bowl or a third, you know, it's one of the complaints that they have when they're at an event or they're out and about. You told me a story recently, a story where you were cringing for the guy. It's back when the days when you were a bowl for that couple, there was this new single guy that came over to play with the wife. Remember, he came in and didn't even talk to the husband, didn't make any eye contact, kind of ignored that he was even there. He did his thing with the wife. And the whole time you were like getting protective, you were thinking you were holding yourself back, but in your mind, you were like, no, you have to acknowledge the husband. You're the only reason why you're here is because of him. Yeah, it was very cringe for me. So it was again, the couple that I was very free with, they had admitted to me like, hey, listen, we enjoy your company. We like having you over. We don't want to restrict you, but we also want to start opening ourselves up to meeting other people. And of course, I gave, like, yeah, let's do it. Like I don't mind if you do that, if I come over or whatever, it's like, if you don't want me here, let me know. So I knew in advance that they were going to be talking to someone and having someone come over. And so let's just say it was a Friday night. I'm there first. And I'm in the kitchen and I'm just having a conversation with the husband and the guy shows up. The wife opens the door. The husband goes to the front door and the guy just kind of like literally blew the husband by as if he didn't exist. Well, the husband was kind of like trying to introduce himself. I was just so like, what? I couldn't believe that that had happened. The wife recognized the problem when I was like with my mouth open, stopped, introduced her husband. Then they continued on. She gave the guy a tour. And then there was more of this whole like, it was just this whole vibe that continued on from that moment that the husband wasn't really there. He wasn't involved. And yet he was. The husband was trying to tell the guy what he liked. Like I like this. I like that. And the husband, and they did was just kind of like nodding his head. He's like, yeah, yeah, sure. But then there was no feedback. There was like, oh, well, if you like this, would it be better if I did this or would it be better if I, you know, made a call first instead? There was no like reciprocal like questioning. The guy was just nodding his head like that. He wasn't retaining the request. Yeah, he wasn't understanding like the concept. He was only interested in what he was getting. He didn't care about the husband's requests or his side of things or what he was getting out of it. And I'm just over here shaking my head going, I cannot believe this is continuing on. But eventually it did. The couple had an experience in the bedroom. It was kind of short lived. The guy left. So I was just having a conversation with the couple. So how do you guys feel that went? Right. And the wife said, well, the performance was kind of typical and the husband was like, I didn't really care for it. I knew the husband wasn't really happy with that. And what I had done in that situation was a plate as like the third party observer counselor. And it was like, so as the wife, did you feel like your husband was gaining the respect that he needed? Did you feel like the guy was looking out for what your husband really wanted? And she was like, you know, I guess you're right. I guess I didn't see it that way in the moment. Before you even go out there and put yourself, you got to understand where your boundaries are first. So for example, I myself in our marriage might go out and be a third to a couple, right? We have our own boundaries that I have to understand and respect before I go and put myself out there, right? You need to identify who you are and where our boundaries are before I can pretend to understand if I'm going to be able to fit in another couple's dynamic in their boundaries. And if you aren't comfortable with knowing exactly where your boundaries lie and what you can and can't do and can and can't get involved with, then you're really not ready to move outside of your bubble, your space and see if you can integrate yourself into someone else's play style. Right. Step one is know your boundaries and have your identity set. Yep. Or some of that's going to adjust as you have experiences. I would say the one of the largest defining boundaries that just varies greatly with couples, whether it's looking for goals or whether it's looking for unicorns is this concept of emotions. We don't want emotions involved or we don't mind. There have been quite a few couples that we've met where they said, oh, we used to have a unicorn, but then she got feelings. And that same couple will also say we're not DTF. But then I have to point out the obvious. I'm like, okay, so you're not DTF, but you don't want emotions. So there's a paradox that you have just created yourself and they almost never realize it. And so I have to explain it to them. I was like, if you're a true DTF, which is short for down to fuck, that means you can walk into a room. You don't need to know someone's name and you can immediately start playing with them. That's DTF. You're down to fuck people. If you don't want emotions, then you got to look at your relationship with a person on a scale of one to 100 or maybe zero to 100. DTF would be zero. I don't need to know your name. I don't need to know anything about you. My relationship with you as at level zero. At level 100, you feel like your soulmates. And then everything in the middle there is a spectrum. I mean, I don't know you and we're soulmates. So what you're saying is somewhere between I need to get to know you. I need to feel a little bit more of a connection. It needs to be a little bit more than friends. What you're saying is somewhere on that spectrum, you have drawn a line and you don't want it to go past that line. Right. Unless you can articulate where that line is, clearly, you are going to have a problem. You have to be able to articulate where the line is, where you want it to be. For some people that's just leaving it as, I don't want to put a label on it. That's okay. Maybe you can allow yourself to experience feelings, but as long as and express those feelings, but as long as no one's claiming a label or a title, maybe that's where the comfort lies. Maybe that's where that that boundary is. For some couples, the more genuine the feeling, the more genuine the experience, the more they're going to enjoy it, the more they're going to want more of it as opposed to the, we can be friends, but there's no emotions. Where on the line is that? Is that over like closer to 10, as opposed to 50? I don't even know where you would draw that line. I think it's helpful just for all parties involved if you just articulate where you don't want it to go. It's very important that you understand where your spouse is at as well. Right. So, there's only three of us involved in this dynamic, right? There's myself and then there's the other couple, but there's actually one more person involved because I am married. So, I'm not even technically single. I might present myself as a single. Of course, they know I'm married. It's not like I'm saying I'm a single out there. It's not like I'm lying to them. You're playing as a single. I'm playing as a single, right? So, I let them know, yes, I'm married. I'm out here as a single. My wife never has to be involved. Or maybe she will be if you guys are cool with that maybe one day. And if I become uncomfortable with the whole situation, even if all three of you guys are comfortable. Then that's something that we have to take into consideration. If my wife pulls the red flag card, then I have to prioritize my wife and say what's going on? Why do you feel this way? Do I need to cut this off? How do you feel talking to me? Exactly. Like, let's say you're a married couple and your partner wants to go be a third, whether it's for one night or not going thing. And you want your partner to stop and they don't. This is where you need to press the brakes even harder because now they're not making you priority. You should always be the priority in your relationship. Right. And the moment you feel like you're not a priority or there's evidence that you're not a priority, that's when you hit the brakes harder. Let's talk about unicorns. And our experience is with unicorns. Okay. So, our experience with unicorns is pretty limited. Really? I don't know. I hear couples talk about how it's so hard to find unicorns and they never find them. So we've had over like six or a dozen unicorns experiences, haven't we? I suppose what I meant is pretty limited compared to full swaps. Oh, well, sure. Yeah. Okay. So, my first experience with unicorn was actually on the Temptations Crews back in 2022. It was a lovely woman who befriended us at the pool, one thing led to another and it was my first experience with the unicorn. I didn't know what to do because that was when I was trying to be bisexual. I wasn't really feeling it. Not really knowing what my vibe was or sorry, let's rephrase that. Not really knowing what I wanted in regards to bisexuality. So I saw you guys start and I tried to find little places that I could fit in on the bed and do things but I didn't really want to do anything to her and it was very much you guys doing things. So I didn't want to take you away from her. So I felt really awkward. But also you didn't really want to receive attention because you just specifically said I don't want to be the center of attention. So it made it awkward for us to like, okay, well, if we can't both put our attention on you, that means we, if we're going to put it on our attention and on anyone has to be each other. And then when we put it on each other, you didn't know how to interact as the third from the outside. And so it was just, that's, I feel like that's how you felt uncomfortable. If that's how your memory gives it to you, I don't remember it that way. That's fine though. I remember that that was in your thirsty era and you wanted to have sex with someone new and she was a red head and she was hot and so it was definitely you going to be playing with her and I had to find a way to fit in there and I didn't, didn't know how to fit. Oh. That's my memory. And there's, there's no shame to that. It's just my memory. So what I did during that time is I found ways to be supportive. I got a sweat cloth to wipe sweat away. That's how I became this kind of provider of this sexual energy. Like I can't be on the back because I don't know what to do and I don't only want to touch anyone, but I can provide. That's very interesting that you say that because over the years, I felt like that's been a continuing thread in all of our meetups with unicorns. That's because shortly after that experience within a couple of months, you had told me that you kind of wanted to see what it was like if I just watched and didn't do anything. That's when I started falling into that role even more. Okay, I do remember the request of, hey, what would it be like if you just watched? But I can also remember very specific examples of when I tried to encourage you to play with a woman and you said you didn't want to go there or you said you didn't feel like that was something you wanted to do in the moment. Because it's not that I feel like I've heavily encouraged you to try to explore that. You have. You would say things like, well, I don't feel like I have the experience or I feel like I would do a bad job. And then I always try to reassure you that even on your first day in the lifestyle, when you said you didn't have any experience, you still had an amazing time with the female that you played with in that six-am. And that feeling of satisfaction went both ways. You had an orgasm in the bathroom, she had an orgasm. And that was on day one when you truly had no experience. But it's experimenting, absolutely. Fast forward three years later, when you have all this additional experience and you even have additional experience playing with women, you're still saying the same thing. Experimenting is one thing. And after you get so many experience experiments under your belt, you realize where your preferences are lying. Right? Three years in, which is now two years ago, my experience was leading me to this point of, I'm not really comfortable with that. And where am I today? Today I am very vibe-ish. I will totally make out with a female if the vibe is there. But I will probably not touch another female if the vibe isn't there. And it's not about beauty and it's not about being nice. It's literally an invisible vibe. It's so hard to describe. Right. I feel that and I agree with you. However, if we were to have a three-some with a woman right now, let's just say even tonight, would you-- It would literally go any direction. For my understanding, if you were not necessarily vibing with the female, then it would be like a V of play where you would play with me and I would play with you and I would play with her and she would play with me. But you guys wouldn't really play with each other. Okay, correction. If I'm playing, I'm going to play with everyone. If I'm not playing, I'm going to support everyone. So it wouldn't be a V. It would be you guys playing and I'm going to support you guys. Because I know you're amazing and bad and I don't want to be in the way of her experiencing that amazingness. Okay, but the idea was for us to have a three-some. That's the thing with me. But I'm difficult. I am such a contradiction. I should not be the one spokesperson at this conversation. Because I am so complicated. Okay, so I just don't want to give the impression that I'm restricting you in any way or I'm discouraging you from having experiences with females or that it's because of me you're not. Enter variable A with variable E. Because of me you're not what I'm trying to get along is that you have imposed upon yourself some limitations sometimes based on you saying that I don't feel comfortable enough. I don't feel like I have enough experience. So I'm not going to go down on a girl. I will definitely go down on a girl if I want to. Okay, most of the time I don't want to. I'm just making it clear because the last couple times it was because I didn't feel comfortable. I'm really confused on why you feel so passionate about this topic. I thought I made it very clear. I am definitely by. But I'm by for the right vibe and that vibe is so rare. It's not a beauty thing. It's not a nice thing or personality thing or an astrology thing. It's I will definitely go down on a female or a female or a man if the vibe is there. But if the vibe is not there for any gender, I'm not interested. That I understand. And I think that goes for everyone in this world is just I'm way more picky for some reason. Mm-hmm. I don't know. Over the years when we've had three some opportunities, I've always seen you hesitate in those in those moments. That's the vibes not there. Okay. That's all. That's all I was trying to say. I really liked that one check at that one place. Here we are. We saw her totally grinding this other woman in one of the windows and I wanted to have a piece of that. But I was so tired because I had like no sleep the night before but we decided to go out to this club anyway. And then on our way out she showed interest in me and I really wanted but I literally had like no sleep and 48 hours. Remember that time? Anyway, this was probably like 18 months ago. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think I remember now. Yep. And I was like I held her face close to mine and I said I really want to connect with you. I really want to do this but I have no sleep. I have to get sleep. And then was that contact was never resublished? But that's okay. It's okay. My time will come. And that just that gave me hope that it does exist. Okay. Okay. I'm sure this episode that I was a unicorn for that couple you really sparked my memory there. It felt so natural. And recently we've had conversations about hey, Tori, why don't you go out with a couple and see what it's like. I kind of felt like my memory and not my memory. My imagination is making those experiences feel intimidating. But the memory of playing with that couple at that house party was exciting and fluid and comfortable. So maybe it's time that I get out there as a single. And we recently say that maybe on this bliss cruise that you would attempt to find a couple, have a dinner date with that couple and then maybe have an organic play session if it went that way. Yes. And you just mentioned something to our listeners. We are going on the bliss cruise November 2025. So this episode that you're listening to is probably going to be released November 15th. That means we are on the cruise right now that you're listening. That's exciting. Our plan is just like last year to record each day of recap the morning of each day. So you guys can hear what it's like because there's so much that happens you cannot record after the end of the cruise because you forget all the details. That is true. Also, another bonus. Our intention this cruise is to involve or have guest speakers. Can be fun. We'll see. Okay. So getting back to the topic, bulls and unicorns, my love. Is there anything else or how about advice? Is there any advice that you would give singles listening to our episode being a single? What advice would you give them or playing as a single? You have to respect your own boundaries as much as you have to respect theirs. And as excited, like I'm excited for a couple I met recently and I have to remember that as much as I want that to grow and become something long term, I also have to take my time with it and keep it in check. There's no reason for it to go from zero to 100 miles an hour and five seconds, right? But my desire and my memories of what happened before kind of engaged me to get there quicker and sometimes when you try to rush things, you ruin it. So it's like, take a breath, let things play out as they naturally will and everything is always better when it's organic. It really is. Everything's better when it's organic. I'm sure you're going to be able to reinforce it. Exactly. Of the unicorns that we've met, one of the common themes that they sometimes complain about is a couple will approach unicorn and say, we want you to do XYZ. This is why we want a unicorn. That will shut a large majority of unicorns off because they're looking for friends. They're looking for friends in relationships and they want to be able to hang out. They want to be able to play. They want to be able to go to things outside of the lifestyle. And if you just make it a transactional sexual thing, you're probably not going to get a whole lot of interaction because they're people and they just want to have relationships. That's right. They're people and they don't have someone waiting for them at home like you do. Be it people light and acknowledge that they're human and say, yes, you can come play with us and we'll be your friend. You can come to the picnic with us or whatever you do and just be friendly. It sounds simple and yet so many unicorns complain about it so it has to be said. Maybe on the bliss cruise you'll have your own experiences to discuss what it's like being in a unicorn. You know what? Stay tuned. And stimuli your mind. I said it. You did. You did say it first. My lover, we're going to give our listener the new homework today. Oh, geez. That's all you know. Tell me now. I'm still discouraged. There's been no emails. Okay. So if you would like to email us, please check the show notes of this episode. Our email is there and they won't do it. You can also find us at Swingology on Instagram and on Facebook. Just look up for Swingology, a yellow and purple logo. We should pop up right there and you can reach out to us. Missed us. Host on our page. They don't want to do it. And with that, I'm going to pet some Mr. Grumpy Man to bed. Tune in next time to stimulate your minds. Thank you so much for listening to Swingology. I'm truly honored to have you as a listener. If you liked what you've heard, consider subscribing to our podcast or connecting with us on social media. The links can be found with the episode show notes. This is Tori Kist reminding you to stimulate your mind.[Music][BLANK_AUDIO]